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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole

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i'm your host

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mick west my guest today is ryan

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now ryan will not get a very long

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introduction because i don't actually

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know that much about him

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ryan just joined metabunk a few days ago

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and he posted an introductory post which

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ended very interesting about how he used

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to be a conspiracy theorist

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and now he is not or at least far less

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than he used to be

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and so i invited right on to tales from

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the rabbit hold so we can

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talk about that so ryan welcome hi there

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mike how's it going

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it's going good how are you doing not

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too bad not too bad just relaxing with

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it

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so right so you you joined metabank a

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few days ago

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what what actually prompted you to join

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metabank you know what i um

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with the recent like all the uh the

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recent like

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ufo pentagon release stuff i just said i

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i guess i had one question that i just

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wanted

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the post like on a video um and so i i

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did that

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basically just to ask a question uh just

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a simple question

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so in your welcome post you talked about

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how you used to be a conspiracy theorist

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can you describe essentially your origin

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story like what actually started you out

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on this journey down the rabbit hole

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yeah absolutely um so growing up my

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brother was

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pretty much always a skeptical guy i

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guess you would say

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um he would he would believe most

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conspiracy theories things of that

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nature and uh

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one day me and a friend were just

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hanging out in the basement and he kind

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of asked us to

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to check out a video which was the

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zeitgeist video the first one

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i don't know if he even hung around to

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like watch us watch it or whatever or

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whatever it was but he had us watch that

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it shocked me you know it was stuff that

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i i never i think i might have seen

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loose change

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um before it but i didn't i think i

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believed it but it wasn't like

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something about zeitgeist like hooked me

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i think it might have been

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the religious aspect in the beginning of

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it and all that stuff which like i was

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kind of already on my way out of like

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having a religious

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background whatever that it's not a big

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deal but the point by point is that guys

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kind of hooked me in

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and from there i just kind of believed

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it you know i didn't

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i was young i was young i think i might

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have been 14 15 at the time so i didn't

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have the the the knowledge to go and

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fact check every single thing that was

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in there i think it was just so much

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information coming at me all at once

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that i just was like just

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believed it right off the bat without uh

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verifying any of the information

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so i think the zeitgeist is a very

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interesting movie because uh a lot of

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people cite that the two the two movies

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that you cite

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yeah loose changes like it's they're

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just i think it's just the in-your-face

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nature of it you know it's just all

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and it is so much of it all at once

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coming at you with

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with points that you know if all the

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information was true

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it's hard to come away with any belief

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other than that but

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you know whatever you really dig into it

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a lot of it is just

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kind of misinformation if not just

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outright like lie kind of

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stuff but at the time like i said i just

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i didn't have it in me to

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to check it and not that i didn't have

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it in me i just didn't yeah it didn't

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appeal to me you know at that time it's

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like

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you're in on this big secret now that

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it's a conspiracy you know you're in it

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and it's just like you know why would

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you at that point time why bother

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checking the information out to make

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sure if it's accurate you you know it's

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so it's so obvious when you see it

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but why bother checking at you so you

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you basically uh

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so you were 14 years old you were kind

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of a blank slate at the time and then

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this movie comes along

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and just like plonks itself down in your

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brain

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and it kind of it almost sounds like it

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filled up all the space and didn't leave

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any room for

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for any doubt beyond that yeah i would

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say that that's definitely a good way to

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put it it's a

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i didn't you know when you're that you

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don't have political beliefs or beliefs

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about anything like that so when you

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hear

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like it's possible that the government

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conspired to do all this stuff for

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whatever reason to go into a war or

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whatever but it's it's capable of

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killing like a bunch of civilian

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citizens for the interests of themselves

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it's kind of like

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shocking to you you know at that point

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and like almost like a secret that you

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know

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kind of deal like that did you have so

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you didn't really have any

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kind of political knowledge before that

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what was your kind of conception of how

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the government actually worked

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before you watched zeitgeist you know it

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just

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was what you learned in school like i i

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was just a a regular student

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kid the average student that i just

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learned you know the way the government

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worked in that way but it never

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interests me you know i think my my

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growing up political beliefs was always

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like

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my parents aren't really overly

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political when they're in their ways

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um and it just always seemed that any

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political talk outside of that

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i just always led to just you know

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bickering and arguments and stuff like

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that so i usually just stayed away from

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it and i never got into it

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and even now like even now that's almost

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the case now you know it's kind of hard

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nowadays to

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say that you don't have a political

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stance so obviously that's you know you

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sway one way or the other but

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you know at the time i was only 15 so

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it's not like politics were a big

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a big thing in my life at that point in

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time yeah yeah i remember when i was 15

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uh that was the kind of time i was kind

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of coming out of religion myself

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i was raised catholic meet me as well

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yeah that's kind of interesting i see a

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lot of catholics

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who become conspiracy theorists i think

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it seems seems disproportionate in a way

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like the amount of catholics really

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that's interesting i didn't know that i

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don't i don't know what it is i don't

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know if maybe

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i don't know i don't really even have an

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idea why it could be that way

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that could be just be a misconception on

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my part but maybe maybe

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yeah it's obviously it's an hard thing

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being a former catholic myself i'm

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particularly interested in people who

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are also former catholics my wife is a

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former catholic maybe i just have drawn

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towards them

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but anyway yes so when i was 15 i was um

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you know coming out of being a catholic

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and i think i was kind of searching

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around for

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for things in a way to replace that do

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you think there's any sense in which

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that was true like you had some kind of

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structure about the world from religion

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and you were kind of

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losing this conventional religion and

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did it replace it in any way for you um

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i don't know i don't think i would say

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that i i don't think so

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no i wouldn't say so i think my my

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coming out religion thing just pretty

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much became from

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week after week after week i would go to

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like uh you know we called it ccd like a

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a sunday school thing

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and uh i i just it all started to get

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like really boring to me and really

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disinteresting

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and it like i just as you get older it

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just kind of seems like

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stories and stuff like that not that

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like i'm not a guy that trusted on

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religion if anyone wants to be

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you know religious whatever anything

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like that by all means i don't i don't

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hate on it by

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at all you know um but just for me it

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just was like

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you know this just kind of seems like

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weird stories or whatever so

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i never no i wouldn't say that i'd ever

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like uh would try to replace it i think

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it was just uh

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i think the best way you said is kind of

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like just a blank mind that was kind of

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never thought about that kind of stuff

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and that kind of

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pushed me to start believing in that i

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guess yeah yeah so i'm interested though

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in your

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your political obviously you say you

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learned stuff in school

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so you'll learn like i supposed to make

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you watch the how a bill is made cartoon

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yeah yeah exactly stuff like that just

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your basic stuff you know the branches

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of government and that kind of stuff

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and you knew that bush was president

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uh yeah and did you remember thinking

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about the president before bush

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i remember when i was young there was

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only the there was like thatcher was the

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the prime minister and then there was

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the person before thatcher i think

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callahan i can't remember exactly and

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and it's kind of like i have no idea

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what what went on when i was actually

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growing i never thought of that yeah i i

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think you know i was i

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you know what when would a clinton when

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would he have been i feel like

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like clinton was like there but i was

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pretty young i would have been pretty

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young at the time

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um because what was it 2000 right yeah i

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would have been nine at the time of the

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2000 election so it's like

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at that point i'm like yeah you know the

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name clinton bill clinton and you

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probably heard about a scandal or

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anything like that but i would have been

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too young to even know anything like

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that so yeah i guess

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that's a good point like bush would have

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been like the first president that you

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for sure remember for you know the

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majority of my life

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at the start of it yeah it's like a

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you know political awareness just arises

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in

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almost like

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you were the ideal time to catch you by

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watching zeitgeist at age 14

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15. yeah interesting for sure i would

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agree with that for sure

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yeah especially and then it's your first

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introduction into it is like such a

280
00:08:18,309 --> 00:08:16,319
negative

281
00:08:20,230 --> 00:08:18,319
connotation to it because it's just like

282
00:08:22,309 --> 00:08:20,240
oh this is what the government's

283
00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:22,319
you know capable of not that you know i

284
00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:23,520
mean it's

285
00:08:26,710 --> 00:08:25,520
it's one way or the other you either

286
00:08:26,950 --> 00:08:26,720
believe that the government's great you

287
00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:26,960
know

288
00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:30,720
that's your first initial

289
00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:32,320
introduction into like hey this is what

290
00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:33,440
your government's capable of you're

291
00:08:36,469 --> 00:08:34,560
going to kind of have

292
00:08:37,589 --> 00:08:36,479
a skeptical eye of it from the beginning

293
00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:37,599
i would say

294
00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,599
how would you contrast these these two

295
00:08:45,670 --> 00:08:41,599
movies there's it's very famous

296
00:08:47,430 --> 00:08:45,680
in the conspiracy uh sphere like 911

297
00:08:49,269 --> 00:08:47,440
movies that got people into 911

298
00:08:50,550 --> 00:08:49,279
conspiracy theories on the one hand you

299
00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:50,560
have zeitgeist

300
00:08:54,949 --> 00:08:52,800
which kind of blends in stuff about the

301
00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:54,959
money supply and

302
00:08:58,790 --> 00:08:57,680
uh the religion and kind of strange like

303
00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:58,800
esoteric things

304
00:09:02,070 --> 00:09:00,720
like the egyptian sun god and things

305
00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:02,080
like that yeah yeah yeah

306
00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:03,680
and then you've got loose change which

307
00:09:06,949 --> 00:09:05,440
is a more conventional type of thing

308
00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:06,959
where it's mostly saying

309
00:09:10,870 --> 00:09:08,880
you know look at these puffs of smoke

310
00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:10,880
and you know why why wasn't this person

311
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:12,160
on this list it's all very

312
00:09:16,150 --> 00:09:13,360
straightforward

313
00:09:17,030 --> 00:09:16,160
yeah and you watch them both at the same

314
00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:17,040
time

315
00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:19,120
i think so i'm pretty sure i saw loose

316
00:09:21,829 --> 00:09:20,640
change first but i can't it's

317
00:09:23,269 --> 00:09:21,839
such a long time ago it's been such a

318
00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:23,279
long time since i've seen the videos i

319
00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:24,880
did a little like refresher on like

320
00:09:29,509 --> 00:09:28,080
the the 911 aspect of of zeitgeist but

321
00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:29,519
you're dead on on that because like the

322
00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:30,880
zeitgeist part i remember like the

323
00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:31,760
religion part

324
00:09:35,509 --> 00:09:33,600
was appealing to me at the beginning of

325
00:09:37,030 --> 00:09:35,519
it just because of that exact thing

326
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:37,040
where i'm like coming out of it and then

327
00:09:40,870 --> 00:09:39,200
it's like this reassurance of like yeah

328
00:09:42,310 --> 00:09:40,880
christianity is like a bunch of bs

329
00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:42,320
whatever that kind of stuff so like that

330
00:09:44,710 --> 00:09:42,640
part

331
00:09:46,389 --> 00:09:44,720
kind of it was almost like confirmation

332
00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:46,399
at that point but it didn't push me one

333
00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:47,600
way or the other it just was like yeah

334
00:09:49,750 --> 00:09:49,279
that's kind of how i already all i i

335
00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:49,760
feel

336
00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:51,360
and then the 911 part was like whoa look

337
00:09:54,310 --> 00:09:53,040
at this you know but the the money part

338
00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:54,320
at the end i don't know if i was just

339
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,360
like

340
00:09:58,790 --> 00:09:57,360
too too young to even comprehend it at

341
00:10:00,870 --> 00:09:58,800
the time or it gets kind of

342
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,880
just weird at that like that all that

343
00:10:03,590 --> 00:10:02,320
that part was just kind of

344
00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:03,600
kind of out there i think it kind of

345
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:05,920
like lost interest and and that could be

346
00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:07,040
an age thing i don't know

347
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:10,240
but um yeah and then like you said yeah

348
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:12,160
loose change is just kind of like

349
00:10:18,069 --> 00:10:16,160
more i you don't say fact based but like

350
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:18,079
more like as far as like if the factual

351
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:20,079
information was true in it and whatnot

352
00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:22,800
that's just like in your face stuff that

353
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:24,000
that kind of hits you in that

354
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:25,760
that regard so they're yeah they're as

355
00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:27,279
similar as they are there's definitely

356
00:10:30,069 --> 00:10:28,720
differences in how they're presented

357
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:30,079
that's for sure

358
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:31,440
so what happens next after you watch

359
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:33,760
these two movies you're uh 14

360
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,399
uh 15 years old you start to believe in

361
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,399
9 11 and then you uh

362
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,240
you start talking to your friends about

363
00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:41,680
it yeah like

364
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:44,160
it it's weird i i i can't seem to now

365
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:45,360
have to talk to my friend i still talk

366
00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:46,640
to the friend that i watched with all

367
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:48,399
the time but i can't really remember

368
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:49,519
what his

369
00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:52,079
um initial take away of it was at the

370
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,200
time you know i

371
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,040
i think he he might have been a little

372
00:10:58,949 --> 00:10:57,440
more like uh not ready to believe

373
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,959
everything that you see on the internet

374
00:11:01,430 --> 00:11:00,640
kind of thing at the time whenever i was

375
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:01,440
just

376
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:03,279
kind of like fully in on it so i don't i

377
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:05,279
don't really remember much about

378
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:07,120
what he believed initially i think he

379
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:08,560
came away with it just a little

380
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,000
skeptical but he might have been like

381
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:12,079
just bored at the end of it as well and

382
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,839
you know it was a lot of information so

383
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,440
maybe we we never really like

384
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:17,760
chatted too much on it but coming out of

385
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:18,720
it yeah

386
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,720
i um i i'm not like a guy that

387
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,399
because it's just i think i know that

388
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:26,320
it's a strange belief at the time

389
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:29,040
that i didn't really like come right out

390
00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:30,399
the next day like oh

391
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:32,320
let's see look what i learned like last

392
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,079
night you know i i'm not the kind of guy

393
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:35,680
that would do that anyway i i don't want

394
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,480
to like

395
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,320
completely like train stop a

396
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:40,079
conversation and then go in a completely

397
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:41,519
different direction like that

398
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:43,279
um so but if something would come up

399
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,560
like yeah i would i would

400
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,560
present it that way but i typically just

401
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:48,399
kind of kept it as like a secret inside

402
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:50,079
that maybe i talked about to my mom and

403
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:50,720
dad

404
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:52,800
and everything like that but it wouldn't

405
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:54,000
be say that i was like

406
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,200
openly proud conspiracy theorists in in

407
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,760
a way if that makes sense like

408
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:01,680
not that i would say that i felt like it

409
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,959
just felt like it would like i didn't

410
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,760
want to

411
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:05,279
broach it out there because i might be

412
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:07,519
seen as like a person that has some

413
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:10,399
crazy beliefs or anything like that

414
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:13,200
so what this was like what 2005 6

415
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,560
something like that i would say well i

416
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:16,000
think zeitgeist came out in

417
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:18,560
2007 so if i had to guess i would say i

418
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:19,600
saw it around

419
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:22,399
the beginning of it if i had to guess so

420
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:24,000
i would say like probably

421
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:28,639
you know late 2007 2008 to 2012 maybe

422
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:30,320
somewhere in that ballpark for four or

423
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,279
five years

424
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:33,120
and how did you see it was it on the

425
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,880
internet or was it on dvd

426
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,560
i guess it was a youtube video would be

427
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:38,560
my guess i think it was on youtube

428
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:41,120
like free to see if i remember i'm

429
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:42,560
almost positive if not maybe it was like

430
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,920
on like dailymotion or one of those

431
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:45,200
sites that like you're just kind of able

432
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:46,240
to see

433
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:48,000
uh videos on but yeah it's just straight

434
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:49,600
off the internet right on our computer

435
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,040
in our basement

436
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,040
so you say it on the internet now were

437
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:54,720
you on the internet in other ways like

438
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,040
on

439
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:57,279
facebook or uh things like that at the

440
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,480
time

441
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:00,399
i don't remember when myspace was i

442
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,040
don't know if that would have been a

443
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:02,720
myspace thing or a facebook thing yeah i

444
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,120
was on it at the time but not

445
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,440
i'm not a guy that like does that like

446
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:09,680
just it isn't like a real

447
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,959
openly out there guy like yeah i had

448
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,480
facebook and all that stuff but i was

449
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,079
more just kind of stuck to myself

450
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:16,720
i'd uh you know i played computer games

451
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:18,240
and stuff like that um

452
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:19,920
and on the internet in that way but i

453
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:22,160
wouldn't um i wouldn't say that i was

454
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:23,440
like uh

455
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:24,959
all over facebook and stuff like that so

456
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:26,800
when you when you brought up things like

457
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:27,600
911

458
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,240
say at school and yeah how do people

459
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,760
react to your beliefs

460
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:32,959
i think that might have been a reason

461
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:34,160
why i kind of got pushed out of it

462
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:35,680
because i was never really met with too

463
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,079
much

464
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:38,560
too many people that like were like oh

465
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:40,160
really like really receptive to it like

466
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:40,959
a lot of people

467
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:43,360
at least from what i remember is uh it's

468
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,560
just we're kind of like really that's

469
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:46,000
kind of like that's strange why would

470
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:47,440
they do it stuff like that and

471
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,839
as people pushed back on me a little bit

472
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:51,920
more as to like the why

473
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:53,839
and things like that i started to

474
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,040
realize like maybe i

475
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,440
didn't fill in the information as to why

476
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,279
why it happened too much and i'm sure

477
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:01,040
the answers were out there that i could

478
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,000
or the the

479
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,920
answers were out there that you that you

480
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:05,360
you that i could have got if i looked

481
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:06,480
into it but

482
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,519
i guess whenever i started getting

483
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:09,279
pushed back on it and people like were

484
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:10,240
kind of just like

485
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,920
i i don't know about that i think that's

486
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:13,440
whenever i kind of like didn't want to

487
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:15,279
make it openly out there the more that i

488
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,639
talked about it than the more people

489
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:17,680
that were

490
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,519
like not receptive towards it it kind of

491
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:21,680
made me like not

492
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,839
persuade my beliefs one way but more

493
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:25,360
like just

494
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,639
made my beliefs more to me yeah

495
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,240
so what do you think would have happened

496
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,760
had you i

497
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,600
say had a friend who was a big

498
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:35,440
conspiracy theorist who was

499
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,720
kind of an interesting point because

500
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:38,480
talking to you about it that's an

501
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,519
interesting point you know because like

502
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:41,120
like i said my brother what like he i

503
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,040
mean he still is

504
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:45,120
like he still believes uh a lot of that

505
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:46,720
stuff um

506
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,040
and you know but i don't know why we

507
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:50,560
never really i don't know why it never

508
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,880
that's

509
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:52,160
it's something that we always wondered

510
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:54,160
how we're so so different we watch the

511
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,440
same things everything like that but we

512
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:56,720
ended up on complete

513
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:58,639
opposite spectrums how i kind of i don't

514
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:59,760
want to say came out of

515
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:01,519
it like thinking logically or whatever

516
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,959
because it it has a

517
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:04,560
negative connotation i guess but not not

518
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:06,480
really but um i don't know

519
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,079
that's a good that's a good question

520
00:15:11,829 --> 00:15:10,000
i've never given it much thought

521
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,839
it's much in the same way that the

522
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,120
internet kind of has

523
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,880
given you uh if you believe in

524
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:16,079
conspiracy theorists you go on the

525
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,560
internet

526
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:18,639
make a post about it and a lot of people

527
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,160
will believe it and it kind of

528
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:22,240
reinforces your idea but for me

529
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,839
since i didn't have that maybe it helped

530
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:25,360
me kind of guide it way out

531
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:27,120
in the same regard that if there was if

532
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,800
i had a group of three or four friends

533
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:30,079
that were like oh really

534
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,600
you know what's the video and and

535
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:33,040
whatever and we sat down and watched it

536
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,320
or whatever then maybe it would have

537
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,639
created just like kind of the same thing

538
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,880
that you get online but in real life

539
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:41,120
which probably reinforces your beliefs

540
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,480
even more at that point if it's like

541
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,480
friends that you've always known

542
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,320
yeah is your brother like an older

543
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,839
brother yeah yeah

544
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,199
yeah he's yeah he's an older brother

545
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,880
like 30 31 i think

546
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,800
so your brother now is a conspiracy

547
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,440
theorist would you say

548
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,920
yeah yeah i would say so yeah what uh

549
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:59,440
what types of conspiracy theories is he

550
00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,920
into

551
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:02,079
nowadays has it hasn't changed over the

552
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,680
years yeah i don't i don't

553
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,440
know so much about like current

554
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,600
conspiracy theories um

555
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,440
but i know that he still would believe

556
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:10,880
911 100

557
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,320
i've never gotten him to sit down and go

558
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,160
like point by point by point by point on

559
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:15,680
what he believes that this happened this

560
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,880
happened this happened i just know that

561
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:17,920
he's he's just a

562
00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:20,399
i guess he would say like he's a pretty

563
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,160
i don't wanna say like

564
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,959
anti-establishment type but like if

565
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,320
somebody says

566
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:26,320
do something like whatever like as far

567
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,759
as government authority

568
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,720
parents even he would kind of not not

569
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:32,639
not do it but just kind of like almost

570
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,720
not want to do it in a way so he's kind

571
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,079
of always been like

572
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:39,040
anti-government kind of type so even if

573
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,360
you

574
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:41,279
break down like the points and the

575
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:42,560
fallacies within

576
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:46,000
the the what he would believe cool maybe

577
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:47,120
he wouldn't believe those

578
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:48,959
but it might just push him to latch on

579
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:50,800
to another believer he would still at

580
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:51,680
least be like well

581
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,519
yeah but the government is still capable

582
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:55,360
of doing this or doing that kind of

583
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,240
thing like that

584
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:58,639
so yeah i don't know i think i vaguely

585
00:17:03,269 --> 00:16:59,680
remember him

586
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:03,279
um trying to to um push i don't i don't

587
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,680
know

588
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,439
but i'm pretty sure that i remember him

589
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:07,360
talking about pizzagate to my parents

590
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,079
one time

591
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,720
or something like that um which is you

592
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:12,160
know that actually got me to

593
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,919
to see pizzagate and i think that

594
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,280
probably was like the

595
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:17,679
final push that pushed me completely out

596
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:19,039
of like conspiracy

597
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,559
theory territories whenever you see that

598
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:22,880
and you just see how like

599
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,799
just i i don't know i don't know how

600
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,400
kind of weird it is i get when i say

601
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:28,400
just weird i mean weird in like such a

602
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:29,919
there's so little information that's

603
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,080
like easily verified

604
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,320
on it i guess it's interesting that you

605
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,240
say that pizzagate was the final push

606
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,840
this pizzagate was about

607
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:40,400
what two or three years ago yeah i want

608
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,039
to say

609
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:43,760
i would say 2017 2018 somewhere in that

610
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,840
timeframe yeah

611
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:47,039
yeah uh so it's pretty recent so you

612
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:48,480
mean you've kind of been

613
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,080
down the rabbit hole to one degree or

614
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,000
another for a for a very long time

615
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,760
yeah so i would say i would say it what

616
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:55,520
really like started the push out

617
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,960
and then and when i said like started i

618
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,559
mean like that really got me like

619
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,880
mostly out of it would be uh with sandy

620
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:02,559
hook like i whenever sandy hook came up

621
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:03,120
i

622
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,559
soul

623
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,720
on there that was like not debunking it

624
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,240
on the spot but just being like hey this

625
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:24,000
isn't this isn't accurate at all like

626
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,600
and just linking it and sourcing it and

627
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:27,200
everything like that almost like point

628
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,400
by point by point

629
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:30,080
and i was like wow that's a string i

630
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,600
don't know like right after that is

631
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,440
whenever i kind of like maybe

632
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:35,440
started to think like maybe this could

633
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:36,960
be done with the same like not

634
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,000
9 11 things like um

635
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:42,480
but it it it definitely was like a a

636
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,520
that was a good

637
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,600
push out of it and i would say like you

638
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:47,360
know whenever i eventually i would say

639
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,000
it was

640
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,760
probably somewhat soon after that is

641
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,919
whenever i was like okay well if that's

642
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,240
if that's how like easily disproven or

643
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,400
at least easily discredited stuff about

644
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:58,000
sandy hook indeed i wonder if the same

645
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:59,679
thing can be done with like 9 11. so

646
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,400
then

647
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,480
i kind of went and did that research i

648
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:04,080
would say shortly after and

649
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,760
when i did that it kind of like brought

650
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,360
that whole thing to a crumble where i

651
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:09,280
almost not felt like a shame but i just

652
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,640
felt like kind of

653
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,480
dumb that i didn't like bothered to even

654
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:13,679
look into it

655
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:16,000
and that i think is like the foundation

656
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,280
of when i was like okay

657
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:19,200
i'm kind of out of conspiracy theories

658
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,799
but like you know if i

659
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,000
read a good one or something like that

660
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:23,600
maybe i believe it but then the pizza

661
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:24,799
could happen and i was just like okay

662
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,280
this is

663
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,600
i just like everything at this point can

664
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:29,440
just be a conspiracy theory if

665
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:30,960
you just post it on the internet like

666
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:32,799
like the way like the wayfarer one like

667
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:33,520
that like

668
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,120
these ones that just came out it's just

669
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:36,960
like whoa this is just this is literally

670
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:38,559
just some guy said hey look at this and

671
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:39,360
then it

672
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:43,039
becomes a countrywide phenomenon like

673
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,799
wayfarer and that's the furniture

674
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:46,160
catalogue

675
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,600
doing what they say has got coded

676
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:49,200
messages about hidden

677
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,000
uh like children who had been abducted

678
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,600
well it's not even coded it's the the

679
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:55,440
names of the cabinets like how like if

680
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:56,240
you go to ikea

681
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:57,520
and there's some like swedish name of a

682
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:58,799
cabinet or whatever like that but

683
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,640
basically on the site it was just a name

684
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:03,360
and they just it's just every name and

685
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:04,720
it's probably not everything i didn't

686
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,039
look

687
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,360
too far into because it's so farfetched

688
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,360
but it's like most of the names were

689
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:11,200
names that were on like child abduction

690
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:12,559
lists and stuff like that but

691
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,159
it's just simple as like there's how 250

692
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,919
000 kids abducted each year and that's

693
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:19,520
just a year like of course you pick a

694
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,240
name

695
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:22,080
and it's gonna be on the list and that's

696
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:23,120
not even saying that some of the people

697
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,480
that were abducted

698
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,840
were found like there was like three or

699
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:27,200
four of them that were just found and

700
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,480
they're fine and they're

701
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,720
like okay i guess i'm abducted now and

702
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,880
i'm for sale

703
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,240
yeah i think most of the most of the

704
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,240
kids who are abducted uh in the the

705
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,919
large number of statistics that's given

706
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,760
are usually abducted by family members

707
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:41,520
and it's usually something like a

708
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,120
you know a divorce situation where it's

709
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,280
a custody dispute

710
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,520
exactly small number of people who kids

711
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:48,960
who are abducted by

712
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:51,120
by strangers i think it's in the

713
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,480
hundreds rather than the

714
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:54,559
hundreds of thousands it's such a it's

715
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,760
such a weird one and it's

716
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,880
one of the ones where it's like it's

717
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,200
just it's just you just

718
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:01,440
it goes to show you what it goes back to

719
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:02,799
like the internet thing it's like it's

720
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,600
just like

721
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,880
you you can find something on the

722
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,559
internet post it and enough people

723
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,799
believe it and now it gains traction

724
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,720
and look what it did i mean it made like

725
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:12,960
you know news like it it's just like

726
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,360
it's crazy and then you know wayfair to

727
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,120
their discredit didn't do the best job

728
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,480
they kind of just came out was just like

729
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:19,600
yeah this isn't true but they didn't

730
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:20,720
like really do the best job in

731
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,679
explaining it but

732
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,200
at the same time why did they have to

733
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,200
like it's such a it's such a

734
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:27,840
logical conclusion to make and so much

735
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,480
of it is so

736
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,960
like easily easily discredited but it's

737
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,360
kind of a struggle i have sometimes is

738
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:35,760
when someone makes a a truly outlandish

739
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:36,640
claim

740
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,080
is it actually worth the effort in

741
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,840
trying to debunk it because by

742
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,080
addressing it as a serious claim not

743
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:44,559
even as serious as an actual claim

744
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,919
it almost like draws attention to

745
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:47,280
something that should have just been

746
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,880
left to die in the darkness

747
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:50,559
exactly which thankfully like it you

748
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,760
don't hear it really now because that

749
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,440
was only i think that was only like

750
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:55,200
two or three weeks ago and i don't

751
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:56,400
really you don't really hear too much

752
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,919
about it now so i think it kind of just

753
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,360
was like

754
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:01,200
pretty easily like people were like okay

755
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,640
that one was we probably went a little

756
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,720
bit too far on that one but it should go

757
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,400
show to some conspiracy theorists like

758
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,919
how easily

759
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:09,440
information could just be put out there

760
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,960
without having to be fact checked

761
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:12,080
without having to be

762
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,240
verified and then you just believe it

763
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:16,159
people believe it

764
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,919
so you mentioned in your your post on

765
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:19,679
medibank uh

766
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:22,159
how with the 911 conspiracy theory there

767
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,280
are these

768
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:25,919
uh kind of there's various levels of

769
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,720
extremeness

770
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,320
and one of the ones is that there are no

771
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:30,799
planes involved in 911 and

772
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,840
the uh the footage was faked

773
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:36,000
yeah yeah there's definitely there's

774
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:37,919
definitely a uh

775
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:40,240
a spectrum to conspiracy theories you

776
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:41,360
know i mean and i

777
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:42,480
and you even talk about it in your book

778
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,840
but there's like just people that think

779
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,200
and this would be like this would be

780
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:47,520
fall on my my mom would be the person

781
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:48,320
that's like

782
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,840
just kind of like yeah i mean it

783
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:51,600
definitely isn't like a conspiracy

784
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:53,120
theory but i feel like they

785
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,960
the government might have had like a

786
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:56,480
little bit of warning that they could

787
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:57,280
have like done

788
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:59,679
done better to prevent it kind of thing

789
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,360
um which you know i wouldn't say is

790
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:03,120
outlandish or far-fetched in any sort of

791
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:04,640
way and then you have people that are

792
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:06,480
completely on the other side where

793
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,240
there's no planes it's

794
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,480
it's all you know cgi animation and

795
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:11,520
things like that

796
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:14,640
um and that that didn't i wouldn't say

797
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:15,520
that

798
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,559
stopped

799
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,960
believing but then like as you start to

800
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:24,400
see that you're kind of like holy [\h__\h]

801
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,880
you had

802
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,880
people on the on that side of it that

803
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:28,400
that thing that um

804
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,000
it's just it's just weird you know it's

805
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,240
weird that you have people that

806
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:34,559
just go all up and down the spectrum

807
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:35,280
there

808
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,039
so you think like this exposure to more

809
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,720
extreme conspiracy theories

810
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:40,960
or extreme versions of them is actually

811
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:42,080
helpful

812
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:48,159
helping you at least yeah i would say to

813
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:48,799
me

814
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:51,200
at least for sure i would say yeah for

815
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:52,559
sure when you see like the sandy hook

816
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,200
stuff

817
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,320
and you see that there's um

818
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:58,400
people that believe such outlandish

819
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,440
things

820
00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:01,679
um that yeah i would say that it goes oh

821
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:03,120
wow i'm believing in this but you have

822
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:05,840
people that believe in this

823
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:08,640
where where does it stop like where does

824
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:08,960
where

825
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:13,440
information gets like discredited

826
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:16,480
outright and you know you just instead

827
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:16,960
of like

828
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,200
taking it and going that's interesting

829
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:20,640
you know maybe i might be wrong on it

830
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,400
you instead double down and go

831
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:24,480
a step further a step further well okay

832
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,679
maybe it is that but

833
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,120
maybe it's actually this and you just go

834
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,880
deep deeper down it it just

835
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:30,559
it kind of pushed me to be like man is

836
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:33,279
there no is there no way that maybe

837
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:33,679
you're

838
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,039
it just seems like you you know it just

839
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,799
seems interesting to me that that it

840
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:40,480
goes it always goes a step further

841
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,320
i'm not always i don't say always but

842
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:44,080
you know some people will just go a step

843
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,600
further to the

844
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:47,840
not crazier side but the more illogical

845
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,120
side then taking a step back and maybe

846
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:53,360
trying to see if everything is is

847
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,559
factually accurate

848
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:56,080
yeah it almost seems like there's a bit

849
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:57,679
of momentum

850
00:25:01,029 --> 00:25:00,000
in belief like if you start believing

851
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:01,039
more and more in

852
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,600
one direction then you kind of continue

853
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:05,279
but if you can actually start to

854
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:07,039
question something you can actually kind

855
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:07,840
of

856
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:12,000
back in the other direction and you

857
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:14,240
you personally would have you know maybe

858
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:15,840
initially had this momentum

859
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:18,000
in one direction with a big push from

860
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:19,520
watching these movies and that

861
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:21,360
carried you forward for for a number of

862
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:23,919
years but then at some point

863
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,480
it slowed to a stop and then started to

864
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:28,000
go back the other way

865
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,840
yeah yeah i would say that that's that's

866
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:31,679
that's completely completely how it was

867
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,320
for sure

868
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,919
it definitely slowed to a stop and i

869
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:35,440
don't know if that was just maybe i just

870
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:36,640
got

871
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,960
busy and like it's not like i kept up on

872
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,240
them you know i would i wouldn't go

873
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,919
online every day and look at the newest

874
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:43,760
conspiracy theory or anything like that

875
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,919
i think it was just more

876
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,520
i just kind of believed what i believed

877
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:49,440
but i never went and like looked at what

878
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,720
new conspiracy words

879
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:52,240
conspiracy theories were around the time

880
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,679
so maybe i it's not that i got

881
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,960
disinterested into him because it's

882
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:56,640
still something that's very interesting

883
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,440
to me

884
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:59,600
um one way or the other now now it's

885
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:01,039
more so like looking at it and just

886
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,400
going that's interesting that people can

887
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,559
just

888
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,559
believe whatever whatever comes out you

889
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,080
know in that regard but at the time

890
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,720
i just maybe i just got just just i

891
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:12,000
don't know maybe i was preoccupied with

892
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,039
other stuff in my life that

893
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,520
it kind of slowed down for me and then

894
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:16,880
or maybe i just got

895
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:18,159
more not i don't want to say more

896
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:19,120
intelligent because it sounds

897
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:20,320
pretentious but just

898
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,510
that's probably the best way of looking

899
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:29,520
at it seeing that maybe what i believed

900
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,400
as a kid

901
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:32,480
isn't accurate yeah i think also it's

902
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,159
not just simply getting more intelligent

903
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:35,679
is actually having more information as

904
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,880
you get older you have more and more

905
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:39,039
context in which to place things

906
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:40,880
yes like we were saying before it's kind

907
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,799
of you're a blank slate

908
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,320
because you don't have any context you

909
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:46,000
have your childhood which is very

910
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,120
focused around just

911
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,880
you know you and your family and school

912
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:50,400
and friends and things like that and you

913
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,200
don't really

914
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,960
care about the news i remember when i

915
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,799
was a kid i thought the news

916
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:56,960
was the most boring thing on television

917
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:58,159
puts me to sleep

918
00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:00,240
i think it's i i think my parents if i

919
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:01,760
was like still up at night and in the

920
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:02,880
living room

921
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:05,039
they know put on the news and and i'll

922
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:07,520
be in bed you know

923
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,039
for me young a young child uh you know

924
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:14,000
pre-teen it's it's it's just completely

925
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,000
opaque boring nonsense the news you

926
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,720
don't understand what's going on so

927
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:20,399
you kind of coming out of that thing and

928
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,760
then the news kind of becomes

929
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,200
interesting

930
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,440
and then you have this this big chunk of

931
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,200
news in the form of zeitgeist and those

932
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:28,799
change being thrown on you and you get

933
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:31,279
uh you're swept in the wrong direction

934
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:34,480
yes yes it's fascinating yeah it is it

935
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:35,760
really is

936
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:39,279
like uh around that time like 2000

937
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:42,240
you know 567 like mid to late 2000's

938
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,360
this was kind of a big time for

939
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,440
conspiracy theories there was the um

940
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,440
you know the 911 conspiracy theory

941
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:49,200
there's also the chemtrails conspiracy

942
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,080
theory

943
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:52,640
do you remember like hearing about

944
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:56,080
chemtrails back then say around 2007 ish

945
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,960
never never ever i never i never heard

946
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:00,960
it i think the first exposure i had to

947
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,080
chemtrails was actually

948
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:04,799
just um on that on metabolic one time i

949
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:06,159
i think i just like one of my first

950
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,039
times that i was on it because like i

951
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:08,799
said i was like a lurker for a while i

952
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,520
would just i don't

953
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:11,440
i don't even know how i stumbled on it i

954
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:12,640
think one time like it might have been

955
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,880
just a 911

956
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,559
if there was like any pizzagate topics

957
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:17,919
on there that might have been like the

958
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:19,039
first time that i

959
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:20,559
i there probably was so that probably

960
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,679
would have been like the first time that

961
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:23,440
i that i went on it and then from there

962
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,799
i probably just hit like you know what's

963
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,480
new or whatever and saw like a chemtrail

964
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:27,760
thing and i was just like

965
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,240
what this this is this is weird so i

966
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,080
click on it and just like

967
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:34,080
and see and then i don't know it's just

968
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:35,279
such a strange one to

969
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,679
to to me but no i would i never really

970
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:39,679
got exposed to to that one

971
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:42,799
um i i don't know yeah and i get that

972
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:44,000
reaction when i ask a lot of

973
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:45,279
non-conspiracy people

974
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:46,880
you know have you heard of chemtrails

975
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:48,880
and uh a lot of people are like what

976
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,559
contrails chemtrails what are you

977
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,559
talking about and it's interesting to

978
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:54,080
hear someone who was like

979
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,600
you know kind of a hardcore 911

980
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:57,520
conspiracy theorist

981
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:59,919
who hadn't actually heard about it oh no

982
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:00,880
i i

983
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,640
actually brought it up recently to

984
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,559
um to my mom and dad to see if they ever

985
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,320
heard it heard of it and i mean they're

986
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:10,159
pretty on the on the fringe of

987
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:12,320
you know conspiracy theories they've no

988
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:14,000
they never even heard it

989
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,120
it's it's kind of that's that's one

990
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:17,120
that's that's that's one that's uh kind

991
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:18,480
of out there i think

992
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,919
but at the same time it's not like i

993
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:21,279
mean it's it's i don't know it's just

994
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:22,320
one of those things where if you see

995
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:23,440
them in the sky you're just like you've

996
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:24,559
probably seen them your whole life but

997
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:26,000
then eventually somebody's

998
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:27,039
might be like hey did you know that

999
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:28,240
could be chemicals or whatever and

1000
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,520
you're just like what

1001
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,200
i just assumed it was just some sort of

1002
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,360
error or something like that yeah

1003
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:35,440
yeah it's uh so were there were there

1004
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:36,880
other conspiracy theories

1005
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,880
that you were aware of or that you

1006
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,000
believed in around

1007
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,720
that time well uh jfk was the one that

1008
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:44,880
you just always in school you always uh

1009
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,240
would see i think we watched uh we

1010
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,919
watched jfk um

1011
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:49,039
that's what we used to it was just

1012
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,159
called jfk right all of this yeah yeah

1013
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,240
we watched that in school you know

1014
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:55,840
probably 10th grade or whatever age you

1015
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:56,799
are around that time

1016
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:00,080
we watched that in school um yeah it

1017
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:01,440
seems like a weird one to watch now that

1018
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,480
i think about it yeah because

1019
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:05,120
there was we had this weird class in in

1020
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,600
in uh

1021
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,960
in school that was just like a straight

1022
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,640
up movie like it was like it was

1023
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:11,120
i mean it usually had um like some sort

1024
00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:13,120
of historical context to it but it was

1025
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,520
like

1026
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:15,600
you know over the course of a week you

1027
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:16,640
watch a movie

1028
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:18,640
and uh and then like the last two days

1029
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:19,919
after like it might take three days to

1030
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:21,360
watch a movie in the last two days it's

1031
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:22,000
like

1032
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:26,720
you know it was a cool i mean everyone

1033
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:27,840
loved that class because you literally

1034
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,720
just watched movies

1035
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:30,720
um but i'm pretty sure it was in it was

1036
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:32,480
in that class or maybe another class

1037
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:33,679
that was similar to it

1038
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,360
that we watched we watched that so that

1039
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:37,200
one was one that was always like

1040
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,960
interesting to me like it was just like

1041
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:40,480
oh that's that's interesting i never

1042
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,919
really went down like a full like

1043
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:43,760
believe it or not believe it thing

1044
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:46,559
with that i don't know i would think

1045
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:47,679
that that's really like

1046
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:51,600
uh the you're a 911 guy

1047
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,960
yeah kind of pretty much um i would say

1048
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,640
so i would say that it was mostly like a

1049
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:58,320
911 thing was kind of like since that

1050
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:59,840
was the introduction to me

1051
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:01,200
it was like things that happened before

1052
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:03,440
that minus jfk because it's such like a

1053
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:04,159
big one

1054
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:07,279
um that uh i i don't

1055
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,960
i don't think that it was really much

1056
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:10,399
before that

1057
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,919
the jfk thing's interesting to me

1058
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:13,919
because i remember watching jfk you know

1059
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:15,440
a long time ago

1060
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:18,880
uh and i yeah when you just watch the

1061
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,960
movie it's very compelling

1062
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:23,440
and it's making all these these great

1063
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:25,519
cases but then yeah if you look into it

1064
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,320
later it's

1065
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,640
it's got a bunch of a bunch of nonsense

1066
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:30,399
in it like the the whole magic bullet

1067
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,760
theory where he says the bullet would

1068
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,360
have had to change direction in mid-air

1069
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:35,120
when in fact it didn't have to do

1070
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,399
because of the way they were sitting in

1071
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,640
the car so there's all these things in

1072
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:39,840
the movie which are

1073
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,880
just blatantly false and now i think

1074
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:44,159
oliver stone is coming out with

1075
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:45,760
something else uh he was just on the

1076
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,080
road

1077
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,840
joe rogan i would just was gonna say he

1078
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:49,440
was just on rogan but i did not get a

1079
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,080
chance to

1080
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:52,720
uh to see it i kind of have stopped not

1081
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:54,320
stopped watching rogan recently but just

1082
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:55,519
haven't

1083
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,799
interesting oliver stone

1084
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,960
yeah he was talking about these old

1085
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,000
claims

1086
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:04,159
as if they were still true in a way it

1087
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,679
seemed like he has got stuck

1088
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:07,919
in this belief like he was saying there

1089
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:10,000
was no way you could have pulled off

1090
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,679
you know three shots in that time and

1091
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:13,600
there's no way even an expert marksman

1092
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:15,120
could have like you know hit two out of

1093
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,159
three shots

1094
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:18,000
yeah that's something i think rogan

1095
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:19,279
talked about with you that was like

1096
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,559
you could definitely hit the shot yeah

1097
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:22,880
it's definitely possible to hit the shot

1098
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:25,279
um yeah yeah it's interesting maybe no

1099
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,000
one's just

1100
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,960
no one's ever in his life like been like

1101
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:29,840
hey man

1102
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,930
like yeah

1103
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,200
[Music]

1104
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,559
yeah you would think you know he's an

1105
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:36,480
accomplished director who obviously did

1106
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:37,679
some research for

1107
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,360
his movie back in the day like you know

1108
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:40,960
20 plus years ago

1109
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:44,159
and he you'd think he would know

1110
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:46,000
so maybe just everyone assumes that he's

1111
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,200
done his research

1112
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,640
his research but it really doesn't seem

1113
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,120
like he has he it seems like he's

1114
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:52,799
he doesn't really know what he's talking

1115
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,080
about and yet he's in a position to push

1116
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:58,720
this conspiracy theory forward even joe

1117
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,799
rogan was correcting him on things

1118
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,880
really that's funny i need to see it

1119
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:04,240
though because that's always interesting

1120
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,519
when that happens

1121
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:07,200
yeah that's funny yeah joe's joe's kind

1122
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:17,190
you know i don't know i mean i get it

1123
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:18,799
for people you know i'm not one that's

1124
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:19,679
gonna be one

1125
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,519
you know ufo you know if somebody

1126
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,840
believes in them or not i mean there is

1127
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:25,679
not not evidence but it's like it's

1128
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:27,760
stuff that's that's that's at least

1129
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:29,760
interesting you know i mean but to be to

1130
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,600
be hooked back and i mean

1131
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,880
it's different if you're believing

1132
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:34,320
because you just believe because it's a

1133
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,600
lot out there kind of thing like that

1134
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:37,840
but if you're taking the the advice of

1135
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,240
like

1136
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,240
you know about because it was it's lazar

1137
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:42,000
right bazaar and stuff like that there's

1138
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:42,799
a lot of

1139
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,080
comes out of that

1140
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:48,960
it's just you know it kind of but i mean

1141
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:49,440
who knows

1142
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:52,159
they talked about what not it could be a

1143
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,279
completely different

1144
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,640
different thing whenever you meet and

1145
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:56,080
talk to the guy and you maybe kind of

1146
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:57,440
just get hooked back in you know

1147
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:59,039
i mean i mean i mean obviously i don't

1148
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,240
know joe rogan at all but he always

1149
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,000
seems to have like a pretty

1150
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,120
active mind you know no i i've i've

1151
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,360
been on the jurgen show three times now

1152
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:09,520
and i was on some other thing with him

1153
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,040
uh he's a smart guy but he really likes

1154
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:15,040
these topics so he likes uh he likes

1155
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,800
ufos he likes bigfoot

1156
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,879
and he's got i think he just he just

1157
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,560
wants them to be true

1158
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,800
i think that's it too and and you know i

1159
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:24,240
mean whatever you know i mean

1160
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,520
people want to do that that's fine i

1161
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:26,800
mean you know if you want it to be true

1162
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,760
it's fine it's just

1163
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:29,359
it's just unfortunate you have such like

1164
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:30,960
a big platform and you push it out there

1165
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:31,760
like

1166
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:32,800
i don't know it's hard to say that he

1167
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,119
pushes it out there he just more so

1168
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,960
has the people on and talked about he

1169
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,240
likes other people

1170
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,240
yeah talking about it yeah so it's not

1171
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:42,000
like he's pushing it with an agenda and

1172
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:43,280
i mean at the end of the day he's just

1173
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:44,159
talking to

1174
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,679
people you know and of course it's gonna

1175
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:47,359
come off like he's he's pushing it out

1176
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,000
there that way

1177
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:51,280
but i don't know it's interesting

1178
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,950
you never know when information comes

1179
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:58,480
out you know you never know

1180
00:35:02,870 --> 00:34:59,760
it's one of those things that it's like

1181
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,880
yeah i mean you know but it seems

1182
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,480
the ufos could be real i mean that's the

1183
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,000
thing like we could we could

1184
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,480
have alien spaceships flying around uh

1185
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:10,079
but the evidence really isn't very good

1186
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,599
these blurry videos and whatnot

1187
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,079
so yeah that's what i have from one of

1188
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:15,599
your your comments on twitter someone

1189
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,880
made like a funny thing that i never

1190
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:18,480
thought about but i was it was like it's

1191
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,800
like

1192
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,400
the only thing more silly than thinking

1193
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,960
like that we're the only people

1194
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:25,440
out of all the universe is thinking that

1195
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:26,480
some people

1196
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:28,720
millions and millions of miles aways

1197
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,680
care about

1198
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:31,359
like what's so special about us that

1199
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:33,200
they're coming to visit us just to look

1200
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,800
to look at us or observe us you know

1201
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,920
what i mean i thought about i was like

1202
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:37,040
that's an interesting point like i've

1203
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:38,480
never really thought about like what

1204
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,839
why why are they if they're not coming

1205
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,760
here to like if they want to come just

1206
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,280
come and do whatever you know what i

1207
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:45,359
mean whatever it is like i i mean

1208
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,560
whatever but if you're just coming to

1209
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:48,480
like watch us what are what's so special

1210
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:49,520
about us you know

1211
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:51,440
yeah i think i think it's kind of

1212
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,480
relates to what we were talking about

1213
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,400
earlier like you're talking about how

1214
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,640
you were you know 14 15 and you got into

1215
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:58,560
this zeitgeist and conspiracy theory

1216
00:36:01,030 --> 00:35:59,040
stuff

1217
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:01,040
it's also the kind of age that people i

1218
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:03,200
get into ufos i mean when i was i was a

1219
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:04,079
kid i was into

1220
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:06,320
into ufos and the unexplained and things

1221
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:07,359
like that

1222
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:09,119
and i wonder if like some people kind of

1223
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,960
get this momentum going

1224
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,640
like you're saying you had the momentum

1225
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,160
of the conspiracy theorist and you just

1226
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:16,640
keep going along that direction

1227
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:20,000
and if people you know get into ufos in

1228
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,520
their teens

1229
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,359
it almost seems like it's just that same

1230
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:25,280
kind of teenager

1231
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:28,240
enjoyment of a topic that keeps going

1232
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,520
into their adulthood

1233
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,880
for sure i'm so i'm i'm actually

1234
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:32,800
surrounded by it i would say my best

1235
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:34,160
friend his girlfriend

1236
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:37,200
um my mom mom dad my brother my brother

1237
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:37,599
is

1238
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:40,480
like a firm firm ufo guy you know he's

1239
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,960
he's

1240
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,240
seen him a bunch of times everything

1241
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,400
like that um it just seems like such an

1242
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:46,720
easy one to to believe which like it's

1243
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,680
one of those ones that's like there's

1244
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:49,440
really no harm in it because it's like 9

1245
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:50,960
11 pushing that stuff out that gets a

1246
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:52,160
little bit weird but like yo

1247
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:53,440
you know if you want to believe believe

1248
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:55,760
it's kind of like a not a religious

1249
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,200
thing but it's like you know if you want

1250
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:59,119
to believe in that that's there's not

1251
00:37:01,990 --> 00:36:59,839
really like a

1252
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:02,000
harm to it kind of thing it's just

1253
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:03,440
frustrating whenever your evidence is

1254
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,839
like

1255
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:05,760
shaky videos at best and things of that

1256
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:07,440
nature like that gets a little bit weird

1257
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:08,079
but

1258
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:11,359
the the core of it i get you know

1259
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:14,000
yeah i think it is mostly harmless uh in

1260
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:15,040
the same way that you know most

1261
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:16,640
religious beliefs are mostly harmless i

1262
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:18,240
mean the problem that would only come as

1263
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,280
if it actually

1264
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:21,599
impacts real world decisions exactly

1265
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:23,040
there's a few million dollars being

1266
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:24,079
spent on

1267
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,760
government research because some people

1268
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,119
in government

1269
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:29,680
want to uh you know are interested in

1270
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:30,880
ufos

1271
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,960
and so they kind of push one aspect of

1272
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,079
it

1273
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:36,640
and maybe kind of hijack other things

1274
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,119
where

1275
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,280
the military is doing research into an

1276
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,960
identified airspace incursions and

1277
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,400
things like that and so they kind of

1278
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:44,000
spin it as being

1279
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:46,960
uh alien ufos yeah they're all clear

1280
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,520
indirectly

1281
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:50,560
always really well they they they say

1282
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,040
not

1283
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:53,040
uh the people who are ufo fans because

1284
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:54,160
they they realize that

1285
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:57,200
um you know if people

1286
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:58,560
think they're being silly they're not

1287
00:38:02,069 --> 00:38:00,560
gonna listen to them so in the same way

1288
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,079
that the chemtrail people they they

1289
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:04,800
reframe it as being um

1290
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:07,040
geoengineering rather than chemtrails

1291
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,240
it's just you know it's just people

1292
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,839
doing geoengineering

1293
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,760
it's real science look at this and the

1294
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:13,359
ufo people they

1295
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:14,560
they have to say well we're not saying

1296
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:15,920
it's aliens we're just saying it's some

1297
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:18,079
kind of unusual craft that uh surely

1298
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:19,359
that should be a problem that we should

1299
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:20,480
investigate

1300
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:24,160
yeah sure it should yeah yeah with 911

1301
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:27,200
they tried to frame it as being uh

1302
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,760
not oh we don't think that uh you know

1303
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:31,200
the towers were

1304
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,880
deliberately blown up we're not saying

1305
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,800
that we're just saying we're just asking

1306
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:36,000
questions

1307
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,839
as to why does it look like the towers

1308
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,200
were deliberately blown up so

1309
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:41,920
they never make any specific claims i

1310
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:42,880
think i remember

1311
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,960
a good i think it was a post that you

1312
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,079
made one time that was like

1313
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,720
people compare it and say like you know

1314
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:50,000
look at all the buildings that have been

1315
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:51,440
hit by a plane or been on fire before

1316
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:52,800
and they don't burn down but it's true

1317
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,000
it's true in the regard that

1318
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:56,640
you've never had a situation like 911

1319
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:58,079
you've never had a plane

1320
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:00,400
crash full speed into a building full of

1321
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:01,680
fuel and burn for

1322
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,640
it's just something that's never

1323
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:04,079
happened the only thing was you know the

1324
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:05,920
one that came where was that at iran or

1325
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,760
iraq the one that just came out a few

1326
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:09,599
yeah

1327
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:13,359
funny in its own right that they kind of

1328
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:14,000
had to

1329
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,599
reinform their beliefs if you believed

1330
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:17,520
in that regard but you know whenever

1331
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:17,839
like

1332
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,040
you're right i mean it's never it's

1333
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,119
never happened before so it's hard it's

1334
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,200
hard to say that

1335
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,680
it looks weird of course it looks weird

1336
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,880
because it's the first time it's ever

1337
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:28,560
happened you know what i mean

1338
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:31,520
yeah and again it's the momentum thing

1339
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,640
like the

1340
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:34,880
the they say that world trade center

1341
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,760
building seven

1342
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,839
collapsed uh they can't believe it was a

1343
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:39,280
fire because it just seems impossible

1344
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,560
the way it collapsed looked too straight

1345
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:42,400
down and it was too fast so they just

1346
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:43,440
can't believe it

1347
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,400
so it must have been controlled

1348
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,400
demolition and so they do all this

1349
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:48,240
cherry-picking research try to

1350
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:49,520
to demonstrate that it's controlled

1351
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:51,200
demolition that it was pre-planted

1352
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,520
explosives and they even paid like some

1353
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:55,359
professor in alaska to do this this

1354
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:56,000
study

1355
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:00,480
far too complicated to get into

1356
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,760
uh and uh they

1357
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:05,520
they try to frame it all it's like being

1358
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:07,760
actual science that they're doing

1359
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:11,359
when it's uh it's more a progression of

1360
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:13,200
their belief the momentum that is carry

1361
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:13,520
them

1362
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:15,680
forward and they're just they're just

1363
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,640
piling one thing

1364
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,079
they start with the idea that they're

1365
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:20,240
right and work backwards instead of like

1366
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,240
yeah convertible they always walk they

1367
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:24,079
work forwards in a way and that they

1368
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:26,079
they build a more and more convoluted

1369
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:27,119
belief structure

1370
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:28,880
by attacking these things around here

1371
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,640
and there that's a good good way to

1372
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:32,000
phrase it for sure

1373
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,000
so uh have you been following any of the

1374
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:36,240
current conspiracy theories like the

1375
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:39,839
uh coronavirus being fake yeah

1376
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:42,880
um yeah i'm following it i mean you just

1377
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:45,040
it's impossible to not talk or hear

1378
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,720
somebody that believes that it's

1379
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:48,640
it's not you know real or whatever like

1380
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:49,760
that um

1381
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,680
not follow i wouldn't say i follow it i

1382
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:54,000
think like i said i think the way fair

1383
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:55,599
the wayfarer thing was like the most

1384
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:56,000
common

1385
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,680
the recent one that i i've seen that's

1386
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:59,040
kind of one that's that's where my

1387
00:41:01,109 --> 00:41:00,160
brother doesn't think that he's straight

1388
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:01,119
up it's straight up

1389
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,440
fake but he thinks it's just the numbers

1390
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,880
are a little bit sketchy and things in

1391
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,720
that regard yeah i just heard that

1392
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:08,480
herman cain died today of corruption

1393
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:09,520
yeah yes

1394
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,960
i read that this morning interesting

1395
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:12,960
thing and he just attended a

1396
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,240
uh a rally i'm just wondering if uh

1397
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:18,160
yeah this this again we we're talking

1398
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,720
about momentum uh there's

1399
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,560
kind of a huge motivation in a way not

1400
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,640
to believe uh that it's the serious

1401
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:26,240
people are saying because

1402
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,960
it's become this political issue yeah

1403
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,000
and

1404
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,400
i'm wondering what will it take for it

1405
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,640
to people to realize that it is actually

1406
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:39,430
people actually have to get it yeah it's

1407
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:40,800
literally at that point where it's like

1408
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,000
you have to get it but

1409
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,760
you know the the part about that is you

1410
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:45,119
or you at least know somebody that's

1411
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,480
that's close that you get it but if you

1412
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:48,480
have like a young person that's like 35

1413
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:48,880
you know

1414
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:51,119
30 years old 35 years old and they have

1415
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:52,319
a friend that gets there whatever and

1416
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:52,800
their friend

1417
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:55,280
bounces back completely just fine most

1418
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:56,079
people would do

1419
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,760
that yeah right exactly then it just

1420
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:59,839
reaffirms their belief oh okay well then

1421
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:01,200
it's nothing you know it's nothing but

1422
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:02,720
it doesn't i mean anything and plus it's

1423
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,280
like we don't even know the long term

1424
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:06,880
effects you know how many i mean you

1425
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:08,400
read it more and more each day now that

1426
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:09,119
there's just

1427
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,880
perfect i think there's like a perfectly

1428
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,200
healthy in shape one of like the best

1429
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,280
baseball pitchers in the i can't

1430
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:16,800
remember what team is on but i read it i

1431
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,079
read it that it's like he's

1432
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,240
like not struggling but he has some some

1433
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:21,839
really bad effect i mean there's really

1434
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:22,240
bad

1435
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:24,160
lingering effects with this virus that

1436
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,599
yeah it might not kill

1437
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:27,200
however many people but there is people

1438
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:28,560
that do have some some some

1439
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:31,280
complications which is like

1440
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:32,960
which is just easy enough to just be

1441
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,640
like hey just just

1442
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,240
don't push it that it's nothing it's

1443
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:38,160
something and whether it's

1444
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,680
as serious or whatever the situation is

1445
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,359
just take it seriously i mean

1446
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,880
none of them would want to go out and

1447
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:44,240
get it even if they believe that it's

1448
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,520
completely hundred percent fake i

1449
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,880
guarantee you none of them would want to

1450
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:48,480
try it and go and get it you know what i

1451
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:49,200
mean

1452
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,640
but then you hear about the parties of

1453
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:52,319
people that do try to get it so then i

1454
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:53,040
don't know

1455
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,800
are people is there anybody around you

1456
00:43:02,390 --> 00:42:56,240
who's like anti-mask

1457
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:05,190
we do have to name names but no no yeah

1458
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:06,640
kind of yeah kind of

1459
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,920
um yeah yeah kind of um or maybe not

1460
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:11,359
works that maybe it's just not a hundred

1461
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:12,240
percent

1462
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:14,560
necessary or whatever which is just you

1463
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:15,760
know i mean what it just

1464
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,839
it's literally nothing man just put a

1465
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:19,599
mask on it's not hard

1466
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,920
i agree i agree all right well that's uh

1467
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:24,960
that's been a very interesting

1468
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,599
conversation uh i really

1469
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,520
you know appreciate you kind of sharing

1470
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:31,440
your journey because it's such a

1471
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,640
i don't know it's such a

1472
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,560
well-encapsulated one i think so

1473
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:35,920
you can see like the beginning and you

1474
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:37,119
can see how you progress through it and

1475
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,920
how you kind of

1476
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:40,800
gradually came out of it how long would

1477
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:42,000
you say

1478
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:44,240
you were like kind of solidly in it

1479
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,280
before you started

1480
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:47,839
say if i had to say i would say like

1481
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,880
four or five

1482
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:51,119
four five years four five six years

1483
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:52,560
somewhere in that regard that i was

1484
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:53,680
solidly

1485
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,280
wasn't gonna intent

1486
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:59,280
like attend a rally or anything like

1487
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,640
that um but

1488
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:03,040
you know definitely for sure 100 believe

1489
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:04,240
that there was that you know what i mean

1490
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:05,280
i mean i was

1491
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:06,960
you know i even i think there was like a

1492
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:09,119
uh a rapper at the time that came out

1493
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:10,880
with like some songs that were like just

1494
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,560
in it was like bush knocked down the top

1495
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:13,920
like had like a whole thing about it

1496
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:14,480
like

1497
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:26,880
we have the same idea you know what i

1498
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,359
mean um so it's like i was definitely

1499
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:32,079
definitely a firm believer for a decent

1500
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,280
a decent amount of time

1501
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:34,720
and young too what do you think would

1502
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:37,839
have helped you out quicker

1503
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:41,200
boy um i just just getting

1504
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:42,720
accurate information you know what i

1505
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:44,000
mean like it would it would have taken

1506
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,200
me

1507
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,720
how would you get that information

1508
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:48,079
that's what i was gonna say you're not

1509
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:49,280
gonna go out and look for it

1510
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,640
no exactly so um i i don't know

1511
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,400
i i don't know um that's what i was

1512
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:56,000
going to say is like getting accurate

1513
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:57,200
information would have been it but i'm

1514
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,960
not going to i'm not going to go and

1515
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,319
look at it you know

1516
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:02,079
who would you have trusted back then if

1517
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,920
someone came to you and said hey like

1518
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:05,119
this uh

1519
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,560
you know this this study shows the

1520
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:08,560
towers actually fell due to fire and

1521
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:09,200
gravity

1522
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:12,240
you know would you trust anybody around

1523
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,359
you at that time enough

1524
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:15,280
yeah i don't know i would definitely

1525
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:17,200
have trusted people but i don't know if

1526
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:18,240
i would have just

1527
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:19,359
i would have probably just did the

1528
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,960
normal conspiracy theory thing that was

1529
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:22,480
like oh okay that's cool

1530
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,880
that's interesting but what about like

1531
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,560
just moved on to the net like it's just

1532
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,480
that's how it always is like at least

1533
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:30,160
when i have like this conversation with

1534
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:31,280
with my brother because i've had i've

1535
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:32,960
had a conversation with my brother like

1536
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,520
and it just

1537
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,960
always moves on to the like it's like

1538
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:36,640
you might break a little bit of ground

1539
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:37,680
and be like no this

1540
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:40,079
this is why this like this point is

1541
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,400
completely inaccurate and then it's like

1542
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:44,400
okay but what about this point and it

1543
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,920
just kind of goes in like this this

1544
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:47,200
spiral where you can't

1545
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:49,760
actually you could kind of start to

1546
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,440
break through on certain topics but then

1547
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,960
it just switches to another one

1548
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:54,480
and then since you might not be as

1549
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:56,319
educated in that topic

1550
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,839
it kind of just then the other stuff is

1551
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:59,200
just like okay that's not that's still

1552
00:46:01,829 --> 00:46:00,400
true then you know it never

1553
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:01,839
actually really breaks through it's

1554
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:04,079
taught do you want to

1555
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:05,839
i don't know convert your brother help

1556
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:07,040
him out the rabbit hole do you think

1557
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:08,000
it's

1558
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:16,880
kind of just like

1559
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:19,280
you know it's who it's who he is now you

1560
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:20,560
know what i mean it's who he is now it's

1561
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:21,680
kind of just like it's not

1562
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:24,640
he's not out there doing any harm like

1563
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:26,560
yeah it's a belief that maybe he he

1564
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,440
he has that that isn't accurate or that

1565
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,480
i wish that he would

1566
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:32,400
just like you know sit down and read

1567
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:33,839
more information and see why some of

1568
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,880
what he believes is that

1569
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:37,200
is accurate but at the same time like i

1570
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,920
mean you know

1571
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:39,760
the fair point of like the government is

1572
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:40,960
capable of of

1573
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:43,760
things that you know aren't exactly true

1574
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,880
it's like it's like there's a health

1575
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:45,760
there's like

1576
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:47,440
not a healthy side to conspiracy theory

1577
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:49,200
but people need to can't just

1578
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:50,960
take everything at face value for what

1579
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:52,480
it is at the same time that

1580
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:54,400
i don't want to put like yeah i'd like

1581
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:56,000
to push them out of it but

1582
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,000
i don't want him i don't i don't know

1583
00:47:01,990 --> 00:47:00,640
it's up to him

1584
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:02,000
do you think there's a risk if you if

1585
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:03,520
you start like trying to argue with him

1586
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:04,160
more than

1587
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:06,079
you know it might he might be like

1588
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,079
alienated a bit

1589
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,480
no so i don't i don't think you guys

1590
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:12,000
struggling with a relationship

1591
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,839
yeah yeah we it's actually a

1592
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:15,680
conversation we just had within the last

1593
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:17,599
the last week or so um that's just

1594
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:18,880
talking about it just because talking

1595
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:19,280
about

1596
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,800
virus and stuff like that it's like

1597
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:22,079
we'll argue about it or whatever but

1598
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,800
it's just

1599
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,640
you know we're just like well all right

1600
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:26,160
we just agree to disagree and then move

1601
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,920
on to talking about whatever you know

1602
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,760
but it's it's tough it's like i would

1603
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:30,960
like to to

1604
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,240
to try but it's it's just

1605
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,000
he's pretty emotional whenever it comes

1606
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:38,480
to it and i i

1607
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,520
can be too um like not

1608
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:43,040
not emotional but just like like just

1609
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,400
passionate about it because you know you

1610
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:46,319
get angry

1611
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:48,079
um i wouldn't say angry but just gets it

1612
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,559
just yeah i mean not angry just gets a

1613
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,000
little little worked up so it's hard

1614
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:54,000
to have like that like settle down and

1615
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,760
have a conversation about like uh

1616
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,599
just have a a point by point

1617
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:59,040
conversation about it and things like

1618
00:48:02,230 --> 00:48:00,240
that and stuff

1619
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:02,240
i suppose he would be interested in uh

1620
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:05,359
coming on the podcast really

1621
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:08,000
probably he probably would be it would

1622
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:09,200
be interesting maybe you could

1623
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,000
ask him and uh we could see there's an

1624
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:13,599
interesting contrast

1625
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:16,800
yeah yeah i'm sure that i'm sure that he

1626
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:18,960
would i don't see why you want it

1627
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,000
let's do it let's do it yeah that'd be

1628
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:23,520
let's do it yeah i could absolutely let

1629
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,559
you know for sure

1630
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,880
yeah yeah interesting interesting yeah

1631
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:28,400
because you know you've got this shirt

1632
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,280
history

1633
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:31,440
and uh she had exposure to certain

1634
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:34,000
things and a different outcome it'll be

1635
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:35,280
very interesting to kind of talk about

1636
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:36,079
that

1637
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:38,640
and talk about what might bring him out

1638
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:40,720
or what's keeping him in or

1639
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,319
what he thinks about me am i a

1640
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:44,800
government chill and things like that

1641
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,119
yeah i don't know i i i like i said i

1642
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:48,480
obviously i mentioned them that i was

1643
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:49,119
like coming on

1644
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:50,480
i didn't i don't know if you knew you

1645
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:52,079
were whatever i just mentioned it and i

1646
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,559
just

1647
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:54,319
but we were a bit like we were both big

1648
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,920
tony hawk fans growing up

1649
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:58,079
and i like gigantic and i was like dude

1650
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,280
like this is like the

1651
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:01,040
the guy that that helped make tony hawk

1652
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,599
you know so like so he he knew that and

1653
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,800
i mentioned that you were on joe rogan

1654
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:07,119
or whatever so he knew that um i

1655
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,880
i don't know i i think he he wouldn't

1656
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:10,400
think that you're a shield or anything

1657
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:10,880
and

1658
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,480
i mean you know i don't want to say what

1659
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,400
he would think one way or the other but

1660
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,319
um i don't know it'd be it would for

1661
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:18,240
sure be interesting that's for sure

1662
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,200
all right well maybe we can talk about

1663
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:21,440
that offline and yeah let's see what we

1664
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:22,319
can do

1665
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:23,760
all right uh ryan i want to thank you

1666
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:25,680
very much for this very interesting

1667
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,880
conversation yeah and i hope that people

1668
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:30,319
will get some interesting perspective

1669
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:30,960
from this

1670
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:33,839
and uh yeah i think they'll think a bit

1671
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:35,119
more about their own uh

1672
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,480
their own history and their own beliefs

1673
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,880
and things like that yeah for sure

1674
00:49:44,620 --> 00:49:40,880
all right thank you very much no problem

1675
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,630
thank you for having me